Navigating identity in the outdoors, safe spaces and climbing : In conversation with Mike Phillips, Devon’s LGBTQ Climbing Club
“I wanted to have a space where I could feel safe and go climbing, and a group of friends who I don’t feel stressed about going climbing with. It was really that simple.”
Mike Phillips (he/him) sat opposite me, fresh from his run, re-fuelling with pastry and coffee from the Boatyard Bakery on Exeter Quay. Mike’s amazing tropical bird leggings (they were incredible, and I was very jealous) were peeking from under our small table, as we stretched out and basked in the June sunshine. Customers were popping in and out of the bakery behind us, which created a lovely feeling of the world passing by, but at a relaxed pace, as folks chose which baked goods to purchase and which blend of coffee they wanted. A lovely dog was sat next to their human in front of us, perched on the edge of the quay, taking a rest from their walk.
I first met Mike via Zoom during a British Mountaineering Council (BMC) Equity, Diversity and Inclusion Committee (EDI) meeting, probably in 2021 (we think). Mike and I both volunteer on the BMC’s EDI Committee, who work to advise and discuss matters of diversity and inclusion within the organisation. Mike is one of the founders of Devon’s LGBTQ Climbing Club – Let’s Go Belay and Boulder Together, and kindly agreed to give up his time to chat to me all about the journey of setting up the club.
I honestly thought we might create a snappy, quick fire interview piece, where I would write up a profile of the club and all that they are doing. Little did I know that Mike and I would have an in-depth conversation about LGBTQ identity in the outdoors, (lack of) community, LGBTQ spaces, exhaustion, what inclusivity actually means, as well as plans and goals for the future and the gaps that still exist in the outdoor community for LGBTQ folk. Our conversation went a bit like this…
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Mike first got into climbing through the Scouts as a teenager, where he had the chance to get involved in fun, outdoor activities, away from school. “The outdoor world fitted me, it wasn’t academic, it was quite practical” Mike said. After finishing secondary school, Mike studied outdoor education and worked in the outdoors for nine years. “The big thing for me, stepping away from home and family, was the ability to express myself in a different way and have people around who would support me.” Despite this, Mike recalled that “although I was out as a gay man, I found I very much controlled that image of myself within the ‘outdoors’ masculinity. Although I had the outdoor community, I didn’t find an LGBTQ community until much later, more towards the end of that career.” Mike changed career path and began to reflect: “it was almost a second formative stage for me, I was able to find a little bit more of a community, but even in South West England there’s not much of an LGBTQ community, what was there was very night life and alcohol focused.”
We discussed the disconnectedness of the South West’s LGBTQ communities, with events or meet ups often happening in the bigger cities and large distances between them. If you don’t live close to the cities it can be difficult to access groups. “In the South West we’re a good step behind the rest of the country, still a good ten years behind London and Manchester. In Exeter there’s one gay club and a bi-monthly LGBTQ club night, a choir, and a few other community groups that meet up once a month or so” Mike explained.
When Mike moved to Exeter, he felt he had lost the outdoors community, but he found community at an LGBTQ choir: “I really connected, I thought I can make a community that fits me when I was chatting with choir members who wanted to get into climbing and it just kind of went from there.”
Creating a safe and welcoming LGBTQ club was at the core of creating Devon’s LGBTQ Climbing Club - Let’s Go Belay and Boulder Together.
“I think for many people who are already in the outdoors, they don’t see the challenges. In our club, a lot of people are new to climbing but we have some who have worked in the outdoor industry. A lot of their reflections echo mine, in the outdoor industry you must be very guarded, you have to be constantly explaining yourself or outing yourself, and having to be the voice of the community, when you do out yourself. Or, you’re very purposefully not outing yourself and being very guarded with your identity. You’re constantly bouncing between those two extremes and that can be really challenging to manage within yourself. Exhausting.”
Mike went on to speak about the reaction from the wider online climbing community when he was floating the idea of setting up the club. “I would happily say that the responses were 50:50 supportive or challenging” Mike said. One theme of comments that were challenging, were from those questioning the need for the club, when in their eyes, there are already plenty of ‘welcoming’ clubs for people to join.
Mike’s earlier comment about how exhausting it is as an LGBTQ person to navigate the outdoors, deciding whether or not to reveal one’s identity, is one part of the answer to the question, why is it important to create safe LGBTQ+ spaces in climbing? Being a spokesperson for a community is also a continually tiring position to hold, the process of undoing misinformation, gendered notions and long-standing prejudices will take a long time. It’s not up to Mike or other spokespeople from the LGBTQ+ community to have to take full responsibility for this. It’s imperative that allies step up and do their part too.
The club is primarily for LGBTQ people and their friends, I asked Mike, how did the club organizers come to that stance and tag line for who the club is for?
“It’s a debate we’ve had about how do we manage that? I think the important thing is how we’ve framed that and written that into our constitution. It’s an LGBTQ club and space for those people, and if you’re not LGBTQ and you want to be involved, brilliant, we want you to be involved, but you need to understand that’s the first focus. Then it’s the friends and we’re willing to welcome you and to be friends, if you’re friendly to us. But if you’re not going to be friendly to us then no, we’re not going to be horrible to you, but we don’t want you in this space, the whole point is that it’s friendly to us.”
Despite the energy and labour that it takes, Mike does continue to be a spokesperson. On the BMC’s EDI committee, as an organizer of Climb Out Festival and talking publicly to platforms such as Beta Magazine about issues facing the community.
“At the moment we’re going through period, socially of quite extremes. So, on the one hand you’ve got lots of community groups in the background, quietly doing their own thing and that’s absolutely amazing for that to be happening. You’ve then got, at the other end, a lot of negativity, transphobic, homophobic press. The battle against that is so challenging. So, to have that excitement about sharing beautiful knowledge is so lovely to have.”
Our conversation turned back to the club, and what it’s like to be a part of the club’s community.
“The lovely thing with the club, is that we’ve seen a whole range of people across the LGBTQ spectrum but also a range of abilities, climbing ability, but also disability, additional needs, mental health, all of that coming in. Again, with the LGBTQ community, a lot of those aspects are more heightened and pronounced, you end up with multiple isolation. Multiple things that isolate you and prevent you from accessing spaces and places. It’s exciting because it’s lots of learning for us as a club. We are allies for other aspects of identity, but we don’t have knowledge of everything, but also those other aspects that we may not have come into contact for whatever reason, we are learning how to support people.”
Finally, I asked Mike about the next steps, goals, hopes and dreams for Devon’s Let’s Go Belay and Boulder Together.
“The goal that’s building from our foundation of the club, is to help others do the same. We’re already discussing how we can get more young people involved in various ways. We already know there are people interested in being involved. We can already see people who are adults getting involved who wouldn’t be otherwise. If we can get people involved that much earlier, then actually, it really opens up their opportunities as well. That would really help push open the doors into other spaces and places as well. The fact that Lor Sabourin’s film They/Them only came out recently, they’re a relatively young climber but the fact that’s the first time there’s a film talking about somebody is not cis-gender, the fact that’s only happened in 2022, that’s phenomenal. So exciting that it exists but it should have happened a long time ago.”
“We know that as LGBTQ people we exist within the outdoor community, but like I say, most of the time we’re hidden. There’s the few of us who are brave enough to be out in the outdoor community, but for many of us, we’re either involved in the outdoor community and hidden, or not involved in the outdoor community at all.”
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The hope is that we will begin to see more, and more LGBTQ and Queer climbing clubs being set up around the country. Since the time of our interview (over a year ago!), we have seen more LGBTQ and Queer climbing clubs being created, plus the inaugural Climb Out Festival. Which is such a glorious thing to witness, and I hope to continue to see numbers increasing, spaces being made safer and allies stepping up.
An extremely, super duper, extra special thanks to Mike for talking with me and being so open and honest. Particularly for being so patient in awaiting the release of this piece. I hope that as a reader you’ve found it helpful, and it has maybe even inspired you to create your own group, or it has given you a nudge as an ally to learn and play your part in supporting the formation of safe LGBTQ spaces in climbing and the outdoors.
Since we did this interview, Mike and I have become friends, as we are both doing PhDs and working in the EDI sector of climbing and the outdoors. Mike is an absolute joy to be friends with and I continue to see his dedication to the club and its members on a day-to-day basis.
You can find Devon’s Let’s Go Belay and Boulder Together, LGBTQ club on Instagram @devonlgbtqcc and their website: https://climb.lgbt/
Article by Emily Ankers (she/her), Co-Founder and Editor of Beta Magazine
Thanks to Char Harrison and Let's Go Belay and Boulder Together for the permission to use the displayed photo.